32. Breaking Stereotypes in the Ballet World: Kathryn Morgan's Impact on Ballet and Beyond

Fanny: 00:00:33

Hello, my friends, and welcome back to another episode.

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If you're new here, welcome.

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And if you're already part of the

Sexified family, welcome back.

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Today, we're trying something new on

the podcast, which I'm super happy

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and super nervous, excited about.

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I have one of my favorite people on the

internet joining me for an interview.

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So, you might get me into 100 percent

fangirl mode, we'll see about that.

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This woman transformed her career as

a professional ballerina to inspire

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hundreds of thousands of people on her

YouTube channel, helping all of us ballet

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lovers follow our love for dancing,

whatever dance background we have, body

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type, goal, or just life history, with

this big goal overall of helping people

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find joy in their ballet practice.

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And since sexifying your life is about

igniting your aliveness and reclaiming

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the pleasure and joy of being alive, I

really wanted to have a conversation with

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her and bring you her amazing wisdom.

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Told you, 100 percent fangirling.

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This is the amazing Kathryn Morgan.

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Kathryn welcome to the show.

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Kathryn: Hi, thank you

so much for having me.

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I'm so excited.

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Fanny: Yeah, me too.

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So I could go on and on about your

history, but I would love for you to

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introduce yourself and tell your story

in a nutshell to all of the listeners.

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I have tons of friends who know

you already because we are all

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ballet lovers, but for those of

you who don't know you yet, can

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you tell us a little bit about you?

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Absolutely.

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I started dancing before

I mean, I knew anything.

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I wanted to be a ballerina from

the time I was three or four,

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my mom put me in dance classes.

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She tried other things.

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We tried soccer, we tried gymnastics,

but it was just always ballet...

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and so I worked really, really hard.

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And, um, Up until I was 15, I was

in Mobile, Alabama, and I just

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was at my local ballet school.

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And then the summer I turned 16, I was

accepted into the School of American

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Ballet for the year, in New York City,

which is the official school of the New

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York City Ballet, was there for two years.

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And then at 17, the summer I

was turning 18, got offered an

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apprenticeship with New York City Ballet.

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And it was very, very

young when I was there.

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And I kind of didn't realize

what a big deal it was, and was

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just kind of like, "Yep, this is,

this is what's happening to me".

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Great.

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I'm actually glad I didn't

realize how big of a deal it was.

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But, um, then fast forward a

few years, I was fast tracked.

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I was dancing Juliet and Sugar

Plum and Aurora in The Sleeping

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Beauty all by the time I was 20.

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I got promoted to soloist at 21,

and it was like a dream career.

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What could go wrong?

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You know.

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As it does.

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And so, I started to randomly

gain a ton of weight.

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My hair started falling out.

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My muscles started, um, disintegrating.

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I would go up to pointe

and I would collapse.

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I couldn't even hold myself.

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And I had been doing this my entire life.

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And dancing almost 8 hours a day,

putting on the amount of weight I

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was in the amount of time I was,

just made absolutely no sense.

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And so, It was just kind of this bizarre

situation, you know, the ballet masters

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were looking me up and down and "Are

you aware that you have put on weight?"

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I'm like, "no, I had no idea, you know,"

um, being sarcastic, but so it turns out

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a couple years into this process, I was

diagnosed with a thyroid condition first.

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Hypothyroidism.

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And then once I decided to leave New York

City Ballet because it was just it was

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too hard for me, it was the pressure of

being on stage in New York with putting

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on the weight that I did, feeling the

way that I did, my muscles not working...

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I did end up deciding to not renew my

contract and leave the company to get

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better About a year after that, I was

diagnosed with Hashimoto's, which is an

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autoimmune condition that does affect your

thyroid and it affects your entire body.

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So, during many of my tests, to get

to this disease diagnosis, you go

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to the hospital I remember doing

a test where I was giving blood

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every 20 minutes for four hours...

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just to check all my levels and

I would just started watching

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YouTube videos to pass the time.

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YouTube was fairly new

at this point, this.

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Was in 2014 so 10 years ago actually.

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And While I'm sitting there it occurred

to me that there were no ballet dancers

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For all the makeup tutorials, for all

the yoga people, there was no ballet.

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If there was, it was, you know,

a questionable 12 year old giving

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advice that might not be so great.

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So I was like, there are no

professional dancers on YouTube.

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So I thought, "well, I'm here.

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I'm not dancing a lot of rumors had

circulated that I was fired or, you

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know, things, bad things had happened.

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So I thought, well, it's

a way to stay relevant.

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It's a way to tell my story.

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And just try out this new platform.

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Let's see what happens".

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Cut to, you know, 10 years later

I'm still doing YouTube, my

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channel did really, really well.

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I teach now.

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Workshops.

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It just kind of blossomed into

this whole different career path

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that I never saw for myself.

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Because most dancers, it's like you're in

a ballet company or you're not successful.

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And that's such A stigma

that I want to get rid of.

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So I also thought "well, I don't have a

real career", but it turned into a real

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career through being on the internet,

doing guestings, because I did eventually

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get back dancing, and teaching, and

giving advice, and so that's where this

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whole, brand stemmed from was me just

trying to stay relevant and thinking

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"well, you know, I was the 14 year

old that didn't even know what to do.

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So let me give advice

to my 14 year old self.

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Let me give advice to my younger self."

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And what I didn't realize was that

half of my audience was going to be

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adults, who either did ballet as a

child and came back to it or wanted

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to start ballet as an older adult.

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So that happened totally naturally and

organically, I had no idea that there were

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so many people who just loved ballet that

wanted to do it, but never had a career.

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So that's where that whole platform

started as well and that developed

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further through COVID, and the lockdown,

and us dancing in our living rooms.

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So it kind of all just happened

through circumstance and me going

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"Alright, well, this isn't working.

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What can we do differently?

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Okay, well, I can't be in New

York City Ballet right now.

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So let me make lemonade out

of lemons, essentially".

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I love listening to that story.

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I love how you tell us about it.

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My first question would be, So, When

I'm only guessing in here, but when you

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were in on that hospital bed I would

guess that you wouldn't feel that great

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at the time, like pretty miserable.

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So there is this idea in your head about,

"hey, I'm gonna make a YouTube channel".

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So I guess my question has two parts

is first, "how did you find the

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energy to do that, to start that?"

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And then, "when did you

find your joy in it?

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How?,"

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Kathryn: Very good question.

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I, the reason I actually felt comfortable

starting the YouTube channel is because

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I started with Makeup tutorials...

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and apologies, my yard man just

showed up as we are doing this

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podcast So if you hear any like yard

work going on literally as we like

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to record he showed up real life.

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Here we are.

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So it was just makeup tutorials.

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So I thought "well Here's a way for

me to get back out there and only

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show my face" Because I was very self

conscious about my body at the time,

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I did not feel good at the time.

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But I thought "well I can work from from

clavicle up, you know, I can do that."

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So that's actually how the YouTube

channel started: I started with

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stage makeup tutorials and then

I did a couple other videos...

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and then once I was feeling a

little bit better, it was probably

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a few months into the process, I

recorded my first ballet class.

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And I think I did this whole, I look

back at it now, this whole disclaimer

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of like "I'm not in my best shape and I,

and I don't look like I'm supposed to.

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And I was a soloist with New York City

Ballet and I'm sorry that my technique

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isn't as", you know, So I did this

whole disclaimer before I even did the

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video, but it just happened gradually.

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And I think, um, for me,

it was all about sharing.

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And that's where the joy came in.

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It wasn't about how I looked on

stage in the moment, in the lights,

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in the tiara, it was a fulfilling

for me to be able to give back.

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And instead of putting the

focus on, look what I can do.

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It's like "here's this advice.

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Here is what helped me.

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Here is the advice I wanted

when I was learning how to tie

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my pointe shoes because no one

actually helped me do that".

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So, there was that kind of joy and it

took the pressure off, because ballet is

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such a career that is so in the moment,

they tell us all the time "you're only

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as good as your last performance".

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You can't rest on, you know "Oh,

I did this role four years ago".

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Like, it just doesn't work.

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Every time you're on that stage, you are

being judged for your next role, and it's

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just this constant scrutiny and fight.

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And so for me, with YouTube,

I could put whatever I wanted,

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I didn't need permission.

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I wasn't told "you're doing this

role with this person on this date".

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You know, it was me totally

being in control, which was very

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odd for me, but it was also my

way of sharing and giving back.

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Fanny: That's so interesting.

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You are only as good as your

last performance, I feel.

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This is kind of something that's

very common in the artistic world.

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I feel about that, like the MUAs

and makeup and things like that.

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And so getting back

this joy from sharing...

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I guess you don't pursue a career

without feeling some joy during it.

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So did you have that first?

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Kathryn: Yes.

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Oh, absolutely.

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I mean, I was a very shy child.

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And so my only way of expressing myself

was through ballet, through music.

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I wanted to become the music.

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Um, and I love being on stage.

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I love performing.

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I love telling a story.

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My favorite roles are always the ones

that have some sort of story to it.

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Um, I didn't connect so much

with the non story ballets, so

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that joy, that love, that..

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Is worth the 90 percent of the time

work in the studio, and the blood sweat

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and tears and the mental games, and the

this and that That's why we all do it.

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None of us become ballet dancers for

the fame or the money, because first

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of all dancers aren't famous, second

of all dancers don't get paid Well.

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So it was always because of that joy and

I tell my students all the time "don't

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go into this career unless you love it.

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If you don't love it, if you don't Find

this immense joy on stage to get you

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through the other 90 percent of the

time, you're not going to do well".

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Because that's why we all

do it, is to be on stage.

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Fanny: And I'm curious...

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has there been times, where this

joy might have fled a little bit?"

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Kathryn: Yes.

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Especially when I was getting ill,

because I wasn't dancing my best,

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I was being taken out of parts.

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Um, You know, because as a dancer

too, the person in the front of the

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room dictates your life, essentially.

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So, um, yeah.

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I also didn't want to look

at myself in the mirror.

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There was this point where I would, with

the amount of weight I gained in the time

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that I did, with the hair falling out,

I started to not even recognize myself.

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And ballet is a career where you

have to be able to deliver under

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pressure, and put yourself out there

in a leotard, in a costume, and do it.

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And when you're not mentally

there, it is so difficult.

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And so for me, that joy completely

disappeared once I got sick.

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I didn't want anything to do with ballet.

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I didn't want to be in the studio.

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I didn't even want to be on

stage, which was very rare for me.

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Um, so yeah, it was, it was tough.

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Fanny: And so you find the joy of

ballet in sharing what you learned

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and your experience and in teaching.

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Yes.

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Yes,

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Kathryn: it's because you're also

getting the joy of other people.

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One of my favorite things is when

I'm teaching and I say a correction

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or a different way of thinking about

it and the light bulb goes off.

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Or somebody completes their first

pirouette, and it's just you

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see like it click in their face.

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That is such a rewarding experience

because you're helping somebody else too.

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They you know, it's such a

cliche thing, but it's so true.

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There's so much joy in helping

other people, rather than

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just fulfilling yourself.

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Because ballet is a very selfish

career, and it has to be.

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You have to take care of yourself.

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Everything is about the next day, the

next performance, the next rehearsal.

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"Oh, I can't do this because

I have such and such".

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I remember being in Paris on tour,

and we went to the Eiffel Tower, and

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we were all like "Yep, there it is.

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Okay, we have shows tomorrow.

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Like, we can't.

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Like, we have to go to bed for the show".

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So when you also are able to help

someone else and have them find

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the joy with something that you

gave to them or said to them, that

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is twice as fulfilling, honestly.

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Fanny: It's so interesting you

actually got that from the courier

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that you had in the selfish part.

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Selfish in a needed way.

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So interesting to get that connection.

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I also.

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Yeah.

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maybe protecting in here, but I think

when you get a health condition,

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suddenly you learn some humility, that

you have no control about anything.

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Yep.

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Kathryn: Absolutely.

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I, you know, it's like "I

can't do this right now, so I

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have to just do what I can".

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And yeah, it's so true.

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It's so true.

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It really puts things in perspective.

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And then when I did finally go back to

performing after being, You know, kind

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of getting through the health condition,

it'll always be there, but managing

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it, I appreciated it so much more.

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I really did.

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Fanny: I love that.

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I really love that idea.

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, so I understand the joy from

seeing people's face clicking when

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they finish their first pirouette

or first double, in my case.

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I'm just going to put out there

that your retreats are amazing.

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I did my first double this summer.

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So I'm so glad.

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So my next question is, there

is this in person part, but

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you have 10 years on YouTube.

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How do you keep The aliveness?

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It's as basic as how do you not

get bored first, teaching the

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combinations and things like that?

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Kathryn: Yeah, well, it's funny because

there are days where I'm like "I don't

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want to teach people how to do another

tendu, like, you know what I mean?

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Like, it's a tendu, point your foot."

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But I think for me, again, it's always,

it's always people coming to the, Videos.

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I still have comments on old videos.

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"Hi, I just found your channel,

hi I'm just coming to you" There's

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always the new audience, especially

with YouTube, because it's evergreen.

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YouTube is evergreen.

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People search something

and the video pops up.

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It's not like Instagram

where you constantly have

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to like be doing new things.

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YouTube, it's there.

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So I'll get, I had somebody

comment on my first ballet class

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video I ever did ten years ago.

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"Hi, I just found your channel

and you're really beautiful and

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please don't put yourself down".

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And I'm just thinking like with

that disclaimer that I did.

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Wow, I've grown so much since then, but

people are still finding my old videos.

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So there's always a new audience.

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Um, there's always new students,

whether they be young or adult.

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And I think for me, I have had

lulls in my YouTube channel.

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I had one recently where

I do get burned out.

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But now I'm starting to, like,

get excited about it again.

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Do kind of different content.

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Actually, my new plan is to go back to

some of the original content that people

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fell in love with in the first place:

ballet lifestyle, that kind of stuff.

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So, it does come in waves.

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But because YouTube, it all

just always lives there.

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There's always a new

audience being generated.

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Fanny: I understand that idea of, like,

maybe losing the joy at some point

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and then getting the excitement again.

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I think it's so important to feel

it and also acknowledge that we

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won't feel that way all the time.

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And that in the end it's The question,

at least it's my totally biased and

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100 percent personal opinion, it's

about living the waves and trying

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to do your best with the waves,

with the peaks and the valleys when

308

: 00:17:10

you will fall flat on your face.

309

: 00:17:14

It's really interesting to just hear

from behind the scene that even if this

310

: 00:17:18

is one of your goal to help people get

back their joy in ballet, it's something

311

: 00:17:24

that you are also going through.

312

: 00:17:26

I love these behind the scene peeks.

313

: 00:17:29

Yes.

314

: 00:17:30

Kathryn: Yes, exactly.

315

: 00:17:31

And I have had so many people say to me,

this is one of the reasons I do what I do,

316

: 00:17:36

"I was traumatized by ballet as a child.

317

: 00:17:39

Because there are many teachers

who are not joyful and who are not

318

: 00:17:44

kind, and traumatize these kids and

then they quit and they hate it".

319

: 00:17:48

I had one woman write to me and

say "I have had an eating disorder

320

: 00:17:52

since I was 12 and now I am 55."

321

: 00:17:54

And you know, those people who have come

back to ballet through my videos, one

322

: 00:17:59

commented recently: "you are literally

saving my relationship with ballet,

323

: 00:18:04

because you're showing me it can be

happy and joyful and not traumatic".

324

: 00:18:09

Um, so for me, that is the most important

thing, is just finding the joy in it.

325

: 00:18:14

Finding, you know, if you

had a rough experience, being

326

: 00:18:17

able to see the beauty in it.

327

: 00:18:19

Um, or finding it for the first time.

328

: 00:18:22

So, that's more important to me.

329

: 00:18:24

And I've had a lot of people say to me, I

love that you're somebody I can relate to.

330

: 00:18:28

You know, I do post fails.

331

: 00:18:31

I do tell you, yeah,

well, that wasn't good.

332

: 00:18:33

You know, I'm not sitting there

going, I'm perfect and I'm wearing my

333

: 00:18:35

tiara and look at me do my 8 million

pirouettes, like, that's not relatable.

334

: 00:18:40

So, for me, I like showing the

rough times, too, because it's

335

: 00:18:43

something people can connect with.

336

: 00:18:45

Um, and that's important.

337

: 00:18:48

Fanny: Thank you for saying that.

338

: 00:18:50

I really want to come back to what you

said about the pleasure of being on stage

339

: 00:18:55

and how this is the fuel that you need if

you want to be successful in that career.

340

: 00:19:01

Um, what I love talking about in your

sexified life or in the work I do is

341

: 00:19:06

to bring the somatic reality in it.

342

: 00:19:09

Because I think it's time to get over the

mindset thing that has served its time

343

: 00:19:16

and now it's time to do something else.

344

: 00:19:17

And I was curious, I think the

easiest way to ask this is, "do

345

: 00:19:23

you find pleasure in movement?"

346

: 00:19:25

There is a pleasure of being in stage,

but I guess there is the mind part

347

: 00:19:29

of, I want to do this tendu to have

the most beautiful lines . But also do

348

: 00:19:35

you find pleasure in movement as well?

349

: 00:19:38

Kathryn: Oh, absolutely.

350

: 00:19:40

Um, again, it's such a form of expression.

351

: 00:19:42

When I was younger, I didn't

enjoy rehearsals or class.

352

: 00:19:46

Now, as I've gotten older, I really do

enjoy working at the barre, and working my

353

: 00:19:50

body and feeling my muscles because it's

like, when it's right, it's so satisfying.

354

: 00:19:55

And when it's not right, it's

like, I want to make it right.

355

: 00:19:58

So, it's Yeah, and move it like I

get at home if I'm sitting at home

356

: 00:20:03

too long I get antsy so for me It's

like movement is so important But I

357

: 00:20:08

think for me even more important than

movement is the movement to music.

358

: 00:20:13

Music is always what inspires me if

there's a beautiful piece of music, it's

359

: 00:20:17

like I have to dance to it It's not even

so much about listening to it is like

360

: 00:20:23

I have to move to this So I think that

for me is where it comes from because

361

: 00:20:28

the ballets that I've done here where I

don't like the score, I can't get behind.

362

: 00:20:33

I really can't.

363

: 00:20:34

I'm just like "uh, I hate this music".

364

: 00:20:36

Um, or if somebody's used, like in

ballet class, if it's the same, I

365

: 00:20:40

even try when I'm teaching to use

different pieces because I get bored

366

: 00:20:43

with the same stuff over and over.

367

: 00:20:45

So for me, yes, there's pleasure in

the movement, but the bigger element

368

: 00:20:48

to it for me is the music element.

369

: 00:20:51

There has to be that connection.

370

: 00:20:54

That's why, like, I've never

been good at, like, running.

371

: 00:20:58

Or going to the gym, or, you know,

like ballet has that musical element,

372

: 00:21:02

um, and that's really important to me.

373

: 00:21:05

Fanny: That's so interesting.

374

: 00:21:06

I didn't think about that.

375

: 00:21:08

Like, one of the basic exercises I give

to my coachees and that we do together

376

: 00:21:12

is like basically senses reclamation.

377

: 00:21:15

Allowing yourself to feel the,

the texture of your clothing or of

378

: 00:21:20

the feather or things like that.

379

: 00:21:21

Like eating, I call that the five

minutes date with a piece of chocolate.

380

: 00:21:25

But bringing the idea of the

connection to music really, um,

381

: 00:21:30

brings much more depth to that.

382

: 00:21:33

And also it brings like good

material to do amazing somatic works.

383

: 00:21:38

Kathryn: And it's, it's been

like that since I was in my crib.

384

: 00:21:42

The only way my mother could take a

shower and get ready for the day when

385

: 00:21:46

I was four or five months old, she'd

put on classical music And I would just

386

: 00:21:53

sit there just like enthralled with it.

387

: 00:21:55

And she was like, great.

388

: 00:21:56

I can take a shower now.

389

: 00:21:57

That was it.

390

: 00:21:58

So from a young age, I was always

something about the music for me.

391

: 00:22:04

Fanny: Awesome Thank

you for saying that...

392

: 00:22:08

there is one more thing that I wanted

to, before asking you the big the the

393

: 00:22:14

last question, there is this thing

that I love talking about and that I

394

: 00:22:18

love helping people get out of it's

what I call autopilot autopilot.

395

: 00:22:23

Are Emotional Numbness.

396

: 00:22:25

And I would guess that this is something

that you know, whether it's from

397

: 00:22:30

the traumatizing experience that you

mentioned, or just maybe escaping the

398

: 00:22:34

health condition that you have as well.

399

: 00:22:37

And, um, I just, I guess I

wanted your thoughts on that.

400

: 00:22:40

Is that something that you've

seen in yourself and or in others?

401

: 00:22:46

And is there something else that what you

mentioned that helped you get out of it?

402

: 00:22:51

Kathryn: Yes, and I try

and do that in life too.

403

: 00:22:53

And that's actually one of the reasons I

love what you do is that so many people in

404

: 00:22:57

their day to day life, we get up, we walk

the dog, we do the dishes, we dadada....

405

: 00:23:01

And it becomes this sort

of monotonous routine.

406

: 00:23:05

And that's sometimes what

happens with dancers.

407

: 00:23:07

Okay, I go to class, I roll out my

calves, I do my plies, and da da da.

408

: 00:23:12

And so it's trying to be

really present in the moment.

409

: 00:23:15

It's like, again, the muscle connectivity

or listening to the music that's playing.

410

: 00:23:20

Um, or finding a different way to do it.

411

: 00:23:22

A trick I use with some of my students,

particularly my younger ones, because

412

: 00:23:27

they have less inhibitions, is I'll say

"Okay, take class as a character today.

413

: 00:23:32

Don't tell me what your character is.

414

: 00:23:34

Like, pick Giselle or Juliet

or Black Swan or Sly".

415

: 00:23:38

And that character would take class

differently Then the other one would

416

: 00:23:42

like Juliet's not going to take class

the same way as the black swan will.

417

: 00:23:46

So it's how you know, so it

gets you out of autopilot.

418

: 00:23:50

It gets you out of just a second arm

this that pirouette great And so yeah,

419

: 00:23:57

it's it's being able to really connect

with what you're doing And I think

420

: 00:24:01

for me to like if ever in my life I

was having a bad day, or things were

421

: 00:24:07

not good being in the studio, can kind

of that's your You escape from it.

422

: 00:24:12

So it's also, I hope, yeah, right.

423

: 00:24:15

I hope students can use ballet as their

kind of, again, let's reset our mind.

424

: 00:24:20

Let's, you know, oh, I

was having a bad day.

425

: 00:24:22

Now I feel so much better.

426

: 00:24:23

So there's different ways to

look at it, but absolutely.

427

: 00:24:27

Fanny: I love that.

428

: 00:24:28

It's so interesting to hear this

in coming from a world of, so much

429

: 00:24:34

self hate and even if you're working

with your body, sometimes being at

430

: 00:24:40

war with it, whether you wanted to

look differently I just love that

431

: 00:24:44

idea of how it's actually possible.

432

: 00:24:48

And I'm curious how you feel about

being one of the first doing that,

433

: 00:24:54

like really bringing the joy of

ballet to people and saying, like,

434

: 00:24:58

screw you to the company model,

435

: 00:25:01

Kathryn: yeah.

436

: 00:25:02

I think.

437

: 00:25:04

I just wanted to bring something

different and I, I know I'm, I still

438

: 00:25:07

have an uphill battle and a lot of us

have an uphill battle because ballet is

439

: 00:25:11

so institutionalized and it's been this

way since da, da, da, da, da, and that's

440

: 00:25:16

how they did it in 1925, you know, and

oh, in the, in: 1800

441

: 00:25:22

it's, Because you're up against these huge

institutions, it's going to take a while.

442

: 00:25:28

I think it's going to be generational

for ballet to fully change.

443

: 00:25:31

It's not going to be overnight.

444

: 00:25:33

But in those companies

defense, and in those directors

445

: 00:25:36

defense, that's all they know.

446

: 00:25:38

So it takes somebody to break the cycle.

447

: 00:25:41

It takes somebody to break

the cycle, the pattern.

448

: 00:25:44

Um, mean directors.

449

: 00:25:46

I just tell people all the time, I'm like

"mean directors are mean because they were

450

: 00:25:50

also traumatized by their own directors.

451

: 00:25:52

Well, I lived it, so this is how it is

because this is how I had to live it".

452

: 00:25:56

And I'm not the only one, so there

are a lot of us trying to do this,

453

: 00:25:59

but you have to break the cycle.

454

: 00:26:00

You have to go against the stereotypes.

455

: 00:26:03

And it's going to take a long time.

456

: 00:26:04

It's going to take a while for

people to, you know, it's like

457

: 00:26:10

Testing what you've been taught...

458

: 00:26:12

challenging your own thought pattern,

challenging "okay, this is how it's been.

459

: 00:26:16

Does it have to be that way?

460

: 00:26:17

Who said it has to be that way?"

461

: 00:26:18

So, it is, it is a lot.

462

: 00:26:21

Um, and sometimes I do feel like,

well, I'm not doing anything.

463

: 00:26:24

But then I'll get the stories from people.

464

: 00:26:26

Um, how it has been

life changing for them.

465

: 00:26:28

And that's, that's what helps

me continue to do what I do.

466

: 00:26:31

I don't know if that answered

the question, but that's

467

: 00:26:34

Fanny: what just came to me while I

was listening is how similar this is

468

: 00:26:41

to patriarchal bullshit dismantling.

469

: 00:26:44

Like I call myself an activist for self

love and pleasure and against patriarchy.

470

: 00:26:50

And when I heard you say it was so

institutionalized and how you need to

471

: 00:26:55

break the cycle, and because there are

more and more of us against patriarchy,

472

: 00:27:01

or of you in the ballet community,

suddenly the change can occur.

473

: 00:27:08

And also what I like to do in those type

of moments is acknowledged that, I don't

474

: 00:27:14

know how it works in the ballet world, but

at least from the patriarchy perspective,

475

: 00:27:18

we have tons of work to do, 100%.

476

: 00:27:21

And I also, a few years ago, I

was in Indonesia and the guy that

477

: 00:27:28

we had said he couldn't wait to get

his wife so that he wouldn't have

478

: 00:27:32

to take care of his chores at home.

479

: 00:27:34

And I was like, you We still have a lot

of work to do, but also let's acknowledge

480

: 00:27:38

what we've, what we've already overcome.

481

: 00:27:42

So, right.

482

: 00:27:45

Kathryn: Yeah.

483

: 00:27:45

Yeah.

484

: 00:27:46

And it's just, it is, it's

challenging the thought pattern.

485

: 00:27:49

It's like, well, who said

it has to be that way?

486

: 00:27:51

You know, who said that

women have to be that way?

487

: 00:27:54

Who decided this, you know, and why

are we still going along with it?

488

: 00:27:58

So it's sort of the same with ballet.

489

: 00:28:01

Fanny: Yeah, or in the medical

field too, like what you shared

490

: 00:28:05

about, "I'm treating people that way

because I've been treated that way".

491

: 00:28:09

That's what's happening to

us in hospitals as well.

492

: 00:28:12

And in so many places, I love hearing

how your ballet history and how you

493

: 00:28:16

see ballet is also, a microcosm for

what's going on as a society as well.

494

: 00:28:23

And this evolution, I really feel This

convergence of things going together

495

: 00:28:30

and how we can take part of the same

journey with each of our lights.

496

: 00:28:36

I'm not gonna go 100 percent light

and love and fluffy, but each of

497

: 00:28:40

us bringing, bringing our path

meeting that would not look alike,

498

: 00:28:47

when you just take them separately.

499

: 00:28:50

So

500

: 00:28:52

I think my last big question

would be if someone is struggling

501

: 00:28:57

to find their joy right now.

502

: 00:28:59

If it's for about dancing, I would

say go to Kathryn's YouTube channel

503

: 00:29:02

and her membership, they're amazing.

504

: 00:29:04

Told you 100 percent fangirl, but

overall, because I know you also give

505

: 00:29:09

amazing lifestyle advice and things like

that, what would be your advice about

506

: 00:29:14

someone struggling to find their joy?

507

: 00:29:17

Kathryn: I think the way I put it in

with ballet, which this kind of does with

508

: 00:29:22

normal life, no matter what career path

you're in, no matter where you are, why

509

: 00:29:26

did you start doing it in the first place?

510

: 00:29:28

Again, nobody takes ballet to A become

famous, B) become rich, see any of that.

511

: 00:29:34

Like, why, why did you start ballet?

512

: 00:29:37

Was it the movement?

513

: 00:29:38

Was it the music?

514

: 00:29:39

Was it the, you know, the idea of it?

515

: 00:29:41

So no matter where you are in

life, whatever you're doing.

516

: 00:29:46

Why did you start what you're doing?

517

: 00:29:48

And if you can't come up with an

answer, then you have to flip it and

518

: 00:29:52

go "Okay, what would make me happy?"

519

: 00:29:55

If money wasn't an issue, if what

everybody else thought wasn't an

520

: 00:29:59

issue, both very difficult I'm aware,

but like what would bring you joy,

521

: 00:30:04

if what you're doing right now is

not bringing you joy, what would?

522

: 00:30:08

And how can you slowly

start to work towards that?

523

: 00:30:12

How can you slowly start

to have your dream job?

524

: 00:30:14

How can you slowly start to, you

know, get to where you want to be?

525

: 00:30:19

Um, and again, it's not

an overnight process.

526

: 00:30:21

I'm not saying go quit your job and like

fall, you know, there's practical reasons,

527

: 00:30:25

but it's like, what can I start doing?

528

: 00:30:28

What would make me happy?

529

: 00:30:30

And I think you have to dig deep.

530

: 00:30:31

Journaling has helped me a lot.

531

: 00:30:34

Um, journaling helped me a while ago, and

it's certainly helping me now with things.

532

: 00:30:39

I think, yeah, you have

to go back to the why.

533

: 00:30:41

You have to find your why.

534

: 00:30:43

And if you can't find a why for what

you're doing, what would give you the why?

535

: 00:30:49

Fanny: I love that.

536

: 00:30:51

I also love to add the, when we can feel

so disconnected that what makes me happy

537

: 00:30:58

is unaccessible, I really love the idea

of what will soothe me a little bit.

538

: 00:31:02

What would help you feel a

little bit more comfortable?

539

: 00:31:06

And I think it's kind of related with

what you shared about the movement and

540

: 00:31:11

the pleasure of movement, just helping

yourself be more comfortable in your body.

541

: 00:31:16

Because also, the sexified life is

so basic in the end, it's about loving

542

: 00:31:20

yourself and stepping out of a auto-pilot.

543

: 00:31:23

Yay!

544

: 00:31:25

And then I love the depth of, finding

your why is something that you can hear

545

: 00:31:29

a lot, but also, um, So, getting back to

what would help you feel happy and flip

546

: 00:31:35

the question, I love that, that idea.

547

: 00:31:38

Kathryn: Yeah.

548

: 00:31:39

Fanny: So, before I let you go, can

you tell the listeners, even if I told

549

: 00:31:43

a lot of things already, but are there

any things that you would like to

550

: 00:31:47

share with the listeners regarding your

events, regarding where to find you?

551

: 00:31:53

Kathryn: Yes, you can find me two places.

552

: 00:31:54

You can, um, find me on YouTube.

553

: 00:31:56

Just type Katherine Morgan, K A T H

R Y N M O R G A N, it comes right up.

554

: 00:32:01

Um, also my, events and my other

business is kmandfriends.Com,

555

: 00:32:07

just "km" the word "and Friends".

556

: 00:32:10

com.

557

: 00:32:10

We do have an event coming up in Southern

California, october 12th and 13th, a

558

: 00:32:15

weekend workshop for adult dancers.

559

: 00:32:17

All levels, and then my online membership,

which you can find at kminfriends.

560

: 00:32:21

com.

561

: 00:32:22

Um, you get live classes, you get

pre recorded classes, there's a

562

: 00:32:26

ballet glossary, there's a whole

foundational course in there.

563

: 00:32:29

So there's a lot of things on there.

564

: 00:32:32

I believe we're over 150 videos

now on just the membership.

565

: 00:32:36

That doesn't even include YouTube.

566

: 00:32:37

So those are like deep dives

into ballet, great for beginners,

567

: 00:32:41

um, some exercises in there.

568

: 00:32:42

So yeah, it's all there.

569

: 00:32:45

Fanny: Yeah, and I can tell you from

experience, it's amazing., and I'm

570

: 00:32:49

going to stop fangirling from here.

571

: 00:32:50

So thank you for your time.

572

: 00:32:52

Thank you for being here.

573

: 00:32:54

Is there any last word that you

would love to share with the

574

: 00:32:56

listeners before I let you go?

575

: 00:32:59

Kathryn: Just, yeah, just keep

finding your joy, finding your why.

576

: 00:33:03

Um, yeah, and I do love

what you do, Fanny.

577

: 00:33:05

I think this, what you're doing

is incredible and I want to like

578

: 00:33:08

binge listen to your podcast now.

579

: 00:33:10

I really do.

580

: 00:33:11

Awesome.

581

: 00:33:12

I'm excited.

582

: 00:33:13

Fanny: Yeah.

583

: 00:33:13

Thank you so much for saying that.

584

: 00:33:16

So thank you for your time, my friends.

585

: 00:33:18

Thank you for tuning in today.

586

: 00:33:20

Thank you so much for sharing your

precious time and energy with us and

587

: 00:33:25

I'll see you in our next episode.

588

: 00:33:28

Kathryn: Bye.

589

: 00:33:28

Bye.